Filter out most candidates by more objective standards like publication records and teaching experience, and then carefully read the works of those shortlists and evaluate who would become the best researcher (given it's a R1 job). Hire that person unless she/he has serious flaws in other regards.
Will it be possible to get a job without an ASR, AJS, SF, SP post-pandemic?
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^^I agree but just to note that the issue raised by critics in this thread is not something that can be resolved by taking a deeper look at candidates (for example, if we were able to spend more than 10 minutes on each file).
Rather, they are suggesting that there is some way to hire people that avoids questions of �taste� and �fit,� which is not a very reasonable criticism to make.You’re misrepresenting my position. I have never argued that subjective qualifications should be eliminated. I only observe that references to “fit” imply more objectivity than really exists, and more often obscures what’s really going on: We just like this guy more than the other guy.
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One thing I learned only after being on the other side (i.e., being on hiring committees) is that sorting through candidates is a staggering amount of work. We had 65 or so candidates for our most recent position, which isn't even that much compared to what other institutions receive. If I spend on average 10 minutes (10!) for each candidate that's over 10 hours of work. And 10 minutes is, like, fine. It's ok. It's enough to do a cursory review and to sort on rough-grained differences. But it's obviously not enough time to read all materials, look over people's work, do some Googling, etc.
I'm genuinely puzzled by that. A TT AP will often become your colleague for close to a decade at least (until tenure review) and possibly until you retire. Also, how many people do you hire? 1 every 2, 3 years?
Spending 10hrs on reading files doesn't seem like a lot to me, even assuming the whole dept does.You don't have to spend weeks on it: you can just focus on the top 20 or so people, and focus even more on those of them whose work is the closest to yours.
Finally, the time you'll invest upfront means less time wasted because of failed searches, unnecessarily bad job talks and problem hires.
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Having been on a few search committees, fit is actually almost always something really specific and articulable - they have taught this class that no one has taught in a while but students have been asking for and they have excellent course reviews, they research this topic that many of our graduate studies have been gravitating toward, they can ?take over? this area for this person who is going to retire soon, they will help with this center we run, they use this method that no one else does but is becoming common, etc. This is especially true after the campus visit - this person was the only one who did well in the Q&A, this person was friendly and the others were off-putting, this person took the time to research the department and people in it, this person was already trying to make research connections to people, this person we could ?get?, etc.
Honestly, this reads like a laundry list of ad hoc rationalizations (which is totally consistent with how I've seen "fit" used in hiring decisions).
Thank you, my point exactly. We decide who we like first, and come up with reasons later. It’s almost entirely emotional. This is one reason why hiring decisions often seem so random.Ad hoc isn’t the same as post hoc...
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One thing I learned only after being on the other side (i.e., being on hiring committees) is that sorting through candidates is a staggering amount of work. We had 65 or so candidates for our most recent position, which isn't even that much compared to what other institutions receive. If I spend on average 10 minutes (10!) for each candidate that's over 10 hours of work. And 10 minutes is, like, fine. It's ok. It's enough to do a cursory review and to sort on rough-grained differences. But it's obviously not enough time to read all materials, look over people's work, do some Googling, etc.
I'm genuinely puzzled by that. A TT AP will often become your colleague for close to a decade at least (until tenure review) and possibly until you retire. Also, how many people do you hire? 1 every 2, 3 years?
Spending 10hrs on reading files doesn't seem like a lot to me, even assuming the whole dept does.
You don't have to spend weeks on it: you can just focus on the top 20 or so people, and focus even more on those of them whose work is the closest to yours.
Finally, the time you'll invest upfront means less time wasted because of failed searches, unnecessarily bad job talks and problem hires.Right. But then tack on the hours that come with interviewing candidates and bringing them to campus, attending talks, having meetings to evaluate, etc. With no exaggeration, that can easily (easily) run 50 or so hours for a search, depending on hosting responsibilities, norms about attending dinners, how many candidates you do phone interviews with (10 for our last search...which is a minimum of 1.5 hours per) and that kind of thing.
Also, anecdotal to be sure, but we have had one search per year, on average.
And by the way, those time estimates are without considering a "deep dive" on really competitive candidates. I'm junior and have little sway so I have yet to do one but I know some of my senior colleagues spe
...See full post -
I should say, I imagine some departments are way more efficient with phone interviews. From my perspective, it would be doable to bang those out in no more than 30 minutes (actual interview + discussion) but my colleagues, especially the long-winded ones, disagree with me, unfortunately.
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THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
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THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
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THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
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THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
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THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
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THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS. AND IT GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS. AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
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