None of this is new. You chose to ignore the obvious and well publicized signals about prestige.
Get out or transfer if you want. But you make your choices.
Not in a top 25 program, this is pyramid scheme
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One of the things that is most enlightening about this site is how often sociologists use words/terms clearly without knowing what those words/terms mean.
While problematic, nothing you described is at all related to a "pyramid scheme."Bad critique.
Poor use of "enlightening". And it is like a pyramid scheme. Most can't reach what the ideology promises.
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One of the things that is most enlightening about this site is how often sociologists use words/terms clearly without knowing what those words/terms mean.
While problematic, nothing you described is at all related to a "pyramid scheme."
Bad critique.
Poor use of "enlightening". And it is like a pyramid scheme. Most can't reach what the ideology promises.False promises is not what defines a pyramid scheme. I mean, seriously. You cannot be this t/h/i/c/k.
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Sociology is a pyramid scheme because the only directly relevant outcomes of a soc PhD are faculty positions. In order to maintain the supply of faculty positions you have to increase your majors in order to justify bringing on more graduate students in order to justify hiring more faculty to train these grads.
Faculty (Only job)
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grad grad (Only way to obtain only job)
/ \ / \
UG UG UG UG (Only way to justify training new grads) -
It is akin to a pyramid scheme in the sense that the benefits accrue entirely to those at the top of the scheme, with diminishing results and negative consequences and risks to those at the lower tiers of the system. I do think exploiting cheap labor, without employment protection typical in similar practices (especially if the graduate program is non-unionized) is highly problematic and while not technically illegal, it has all the trappings of a criminal enterprise. Graduate Student teaching exploits both GS and UG, given the lack of opportunities for sociology graduate outside the academic sphere and the ever shrinking number of positions.
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Sociology is a pyramid scheme because the only directly relevant outcomes of a soc PhD are faculty positions.
And that's where you went seriously haywire. Most of our graduates do not work as faculty. Many of them never even wanted to.The desire, willingness, or ability to work other jobs is completely i/r/r/elevant. Sociology PhD's are designed to train you to do a single job--become a faculty member at a university. There are exactly zero other jobs that require a Sociology PhD and would not accept another type of PhD in place of a Sociology PhD for a position.
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Sociology is a pyramid scheme because the only directly relevant outcomes of a soc PhD are faculty positions.
And that's where you went seriously haywire. Most of our graduates do not work as faculty. Many of them never even wanted to.
The desire, willingness, or ability to work other jobs is completely i/r/r/elevant. Sociology PhD's are designed to train you to do a single job--become a faculty member at a university. There are exactly zero other jobs that require a Sociology PhD and would not accept another type of PhD in place of a Sociology PhD for a position.As you have observed, many of our students can realize career advancement with a PhD in any discipline at all. They choose sociology for their own reasons. Why should we turn them away?
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Sociology is a pyramid scheme because the only directly relevant outcomes of a soc PhD are faculty positions.
And that's where you went seriously haywire. Most of our graduates do not work as faculty. Many of them never even wanted to.
The desire, willingness, or ability to work other jobs is completely i/r/r/elevant. Sociology PhD's are designed to train you to do a single job--become a faculty member at a university. There are exactly zero other jobs that require a Sociology PhD and would not accept another type of PhD in place of a Sociology PhD for a position.
As you have observed, many of our students can realize career advancement with a PhD in any discipline at all. They choose sociology for their own reasons. Why should we turn them away?Because the vast majority of "your" graduate students are not representative of the field and it trickles down all of the way through the system. Just take a look at ASA's p/a/t/h/e/t/i/c "Sociology a 21st Century Major" campaign designed to trick unsuspecting undergrads into getting one of our useless degrees. Our majors qualify you for exactly zero jobs except for going to graduate school. Our graduate schools train you for exactly zero jobs other than becoming a faculty member. How many ways do you need it explained before you see the clear pyramid.
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Sociology is a pyramid scheme because the only directly relevant outcomes of a soc PhD are faculty positions.
And that's where you went seriously haywire. Most of our graduates do not work as faculty. Many of them never even wanted to.
The desire, willingness, or ability to work other jobs is completely i/r/r/elevant. Sociology PhD's are designed to train you to do a single job--become a faculty member at a university. There are exactly zero other jobs that require a Sociology PhD and would not accept another type of PhD in place of a Sociology PhD for a position.
As you have observed, many of our students can realize career advancement with a PhD in any discipline at all. They choose sociology for their own reasons. Why should we turn them away?
Because the vast majority of "your" graduate students are not representative of the field and it trickles down all of the way through the system. Just take a look at ASA's p/a/t/h/e/t/i/c "Sociology a 21st Century Major" campaign designed to trick unsuspecting undergrads into getting one of our useless degrees. Our majors qualify you for exactly zero jobs except for going to graduate school. Our graduate schools train you for exactly zero jobs other than becoming a faculty member. How many ways do you need it explained before you see the clear pyramid.Your premises are so ab/surd though. You're not even in the field, are you? Kindly go back to ejmr.
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Your premises are so ab/surd though. You're not even in the field, are you? Kindly go back to ejmr.
Right anybody who doesn't dutifully and blindly defend this discipline MUST not be a sociologist. Clearly you've run out of arguments so you attack the "premises" without explaining why they are ab/surd and move on to compartmentalizing me as an outsider. Totally VLRM move.
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Your premises are so ab/surd though. You're not even in the field, are you? Kindly go back to ejmr.
Right anybody who doesn't dutifully and blindly defend this discipline MUST not be a sociologist. Clearly you've run out of arguments so you attack the "premises" without explaining why they are ab/surd and move on to compartmentalizing me as an outsider. Totally VLRM move.Yes, you have alleged that soc phd only prepares students for soc tt. This is demonstrably false, since the majority of soc phds get other jobs, and a significant number of soc phds have no interest in tt jobs. Gt fo with your non/sense.
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This is always lost on this website. There are many more TT jobs beyond R1. Some of us want those other jobs just as much or more!
The other point that is a bit off is that the job market is a total top-25 caste--system.
Many directionals don't want some ivy super-quantoid at all. They want a professor that can relate to their students, and not be threatening to fellow faculty members. -
Rather funny thread. The reactions are indicative of how these problems get to be reproduced in sociology. Instead of any commitments to change, posters go: I see a small inconsistency in your reasoning.
The root cause of the problem is the supply of sociology jobs. The reason supply of those jobs is low, relative to demand, is that we overproduce PhDs and we don't have sufficient private sector applications. The reason supply is low overall, as in shrinking departments, is macro-structural and reflects a public disengagement from the University in general.
Commitment to change does not equal "let's make sure Harvard students have the same chance of placement as University of Florida students." For me change at my MRM means providing private sector skills to sociology PhDs, advocating for smaller cohorts, and engaging in politics that might rebuild the university. It would also help if we could track undergraduates better into good jobs to increase enrollment. This means less activism and more applied science.