OP - what do the people who know you have to say on the issue? What would your mentor do in this situation?
Advice requested R1 with low salary CC with high salary
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> A R1 prof is the last person you should take advice from on this issue. People who have actually worked off the tt or at CCs are far better sources.
Please also talk to people who failed to move from a CC, or who moved to directionals/bottom-of-the-barrel LACs.
Understanding causes of failure is just as important and, speaking from experience, most people are encouraging and humble and won't rub your face with their VHRM PhD or whatever critical advantage you don't have.
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It totally depends on the institutions. A CUNY CC you get the same resources as everyone else (and better budgets than the seniors because the city puts money in) and if you publish enough you can be on the doctoral faculty etc. You just need to be prepared to deal with the heartache of the student biographies and challenge of lack of preparation.
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I don't think anyone would be able to help out the OP: ultimately, it is about how much risk they are willing to take.
I would like to add, though, that Phds get "stale." The longer you are out of your PhD, the most productivity you will be expected to demonstrate. Going on the market again with the same CV but same publications and a year of VAP will make you less attractive to R1s.
That said, if you had little prior teaching experience and the R1 is reputable, that year of VAP may help you at teaching schools.
Either way, it is a risk, and the OP is the only one who can decide whether the risk is worth it. Maybe OP is in their late 20s, no family obligations, and is willing to walk away if academia doesn't pan out, in which case, risk away. Or maybe the op has a partner or kids, late 30s with no retirement savings, in which case I'd avoid any risk like the plague.
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I’m the OP. I have room to fail. I also have four years teaching experience so don’t need more class exposure. (I’ve only gone on the market twice. This will be my second post-PhD job.) I have two pubs, one in the pipeline, and an untouched dusty dissertation.
My ideal job is a SLAC with a light research load and heavy student involvement. I seem to have specialized in non-traditional student retention.
I’m concerned a CC job within three hours of my chosen home won’t open again. Since I don’t have CC teaching experience, I’m surprised I’m the finalist. The CC job will have a lighter teaching load due to large course credit. I’m not sure I’m done with the SLAC dream, though. Not sure the R1 teaching gig gets me closer to that SLAC dream than a AP CC though.
I appreciate all of your advice very much. The poster that said no one can help me is partly right. No one can make this choice for me. Still, many posters are making me consider important things I might not have thought on my own.
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Another note: the R1 isn’t a VAP. It’s a long term permanent lecturer. I need a year off the market for my sanity one way or other. I’m afraid of getting stuck at either place. At the CC I could be lazy and coast with repeating preps and no publishing. At the R1 lectureship I could be overworked and not get my publications out, leading to being stuck.
I doubt the market is going to soften. Will I be more marketable in 2021? My PhD will be old. I’ll have a ton of teaching and hopefully another pub. I’m not sure how late in life I want to be an AP and start the tenure journey.
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Thanks for clarifying your own needs, OP. Since you prefer teaching to research (many of us do not), maybe the CC isn't a terrible choice for you after all. I said a few pages ago that I got stuck at a regional 4/4. I prefer the publication game to undergrad work. Due to this, a CC would crush me. But if you want heavy student involvement, do that plan, since that is also the tenure track job with the security and better pay.
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From the sound of it, the CC is going to give you more potential to show case your teaching side. You'll be tenure track and have a chance to own a part of the curriculum. Lecturers, even long term ones, get the courses the TT faculty don't want. You can spend your first uear working something out in one area and lose it all when the school hires a TT line in that area. Odds are the new faculty member takes those classes and you get left to cover some other area. CC is more likely to let you own an area have both teach and curriculum development skills to a SLAC search committee.
On the downside the question is if the CC offers the research support to get the pubs a SLAC is still going to want.
CC also honestly sounds like a better fail case, where end of the day you don't get the SLAC. Last time I took the kid to Disney World (or more like let the kid drag us there), total expenses between flight, hotel, dining, etc was just under 10% of that 49k. CC should have regular raises, R1 only has one that one bump when you make senior lecturer or whatever they call it. That's tough in the long term. Plus like you said, you'd be coasting at the CC and coasting is a better fate than overworked anxiety.
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It sounds like, OP, you want a LAC, not a SLAC because in my experience, SLACs still have a strong expectation of research (as the S in SLAC is "selective" not small). Look at the top 25 liberal arts colleges, and scholars are publishing books and articles in top presses and journals.
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> if you want heavy student involvement
You have very little student involvement at a CC. You typically see them for one class (Intro) and then they're out of your life forever. OH visits were extremely rare. Maybe one student every three semesters. If that many.
One of the things I like about the LAC is that I actually get to know some kids and watch them grow up.
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Question (because I may be in a similar boat as OP soon): how, if at all, does CC TT translate to TT at a school with any sort of research expectation (not R1, thinking LAC)? Could someone on CC TT have any reasonable expectations to be credited toward tenure if they move?
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“OP - what do the people who know you have to say on the issue? What would your mentor do in this situation?“
My R1 mentor with a fancy Ph.D. refused to give concrete advice. He said I knew the pros and cons and it was a personal choice.
My peers are split, oddly by gender. Women are on the take the CC side and men on the R1 side. All agree there is no bad choice.